Runner's World, Start to Finish and Run Melbourne

Good luck Finch. Look forward to hearing the report.

Good luck on the island Finch.

Don't trip over one of those little marsupial varmints!

Or let any of them beat you to the finish line.



Have a great one.

Nice to hear from you Finch. Good luck with the marathon. Be sure to let us know how you go.

Finch wrote:Well after all the excitement of the Melbourne marathon I have just had my last Major run before next Sundays (22nd) Rottnest Marathon, 6am start so have to spend the night on the island.



Will let you all know how it all goes.



john

Finch... i would like to join everyone in the accolade of good wishes... may you do a good marathon... and above all, enjoy yourself on the course. Regards.

Howdy Schtumpy,

I'm impressed!!! I made a decision last week after the Rotto run to do two next year, probably the Bunbury early on followed by the Rotto again at the end of the year (excellent run if you get the chance!) now I've gone and made it public I'll have to stick to my word. I'll keep in touch as time goes by Cheers MM

Finally able to do my first 20k run since the back went.

Great to finally get a few miles into the legs again.

I have found this whole slow climb back thing very frustrating indeed. It's certainly given me a little tiny bit of insight into the trials and travails of what Sharon & Beki etc etc have been going through.

Just wondering if anyone's actaully followed through with a Hal Hidgon Marathon program before? I've done a quick search through the forum and found people doing the halfs but then modifying the marathon programs for various reasons.



So has anyone actually stuck with one? I'm starting the Intermediate 2 one on Monday ( 18 weeks out from Brisbane Marathon ).



Schtumpy, any change of plans yet? keen to run it?

Sorry mate.

I'll just be trotting around for the Half.

Only doing the Gold Coast next year.



I read Higdon but have never followed his or anyone else's preparation.



Those formulae seem altogether too formulaic. I have always needed something much more flexible because off shift work & stuff.



I set myself certain rules for each week and try to fill in the blanks. I'll give you a hand if you like. The plan seemed to work for the great waddling woman of Victoria as well but it may not work for you. From memory you may be altogether too tall.

Adam RR wrote:Just wondering if anyone's actaully followed through with a Hal Hidgon Marathon program before? I've done a quick search through the forum and found people doing the halfs but then modifying the marathon programs for various reasons.

I did, in training for the 2005 Melbourne Marathon. I did the beginner version, as I'd only been running for 6 months at that stage.



It worked for me, at least it got me over the finish line, albeit in a fairly modest time.

I can certainly vouch for coach Schtumpie's marathon training plan, it definitely worked for me! Hoping it will again next year as I'm aiming to do 3



And schtumpy, great news about your 20k run. I know it has been a long road for you and I really admire your patience and strength.

DuckGirl wrote:I'm aiming to do 3

Oh No!!

schtumpie wrote:Sorry mate.

I'll just be trotting around for the Half.

Only doing the Gold Coast next year.



I read Higdon but have never followed his or anyone else's preparation.



Those formulae seem altogether too formulaic. I have always needed something much more flexible because off shift work & stuff.



I set myself certain rules for each week and try to fill in the blanks. I'll give you a hand if you like. The plan seemed to work for the great waddling woman of Victoria as well but it may not work for you. From memory you may be altogether too tall.

haha always keen on some direction thanks Obe One ( or would that be Yoda? )



My main concern with the Intermadiate 2 program is the 16km at 5:15-5:20 Pace on the Saturday, which is my intended race pace, followed by upto 32km on the Sunday. Just hope i've picked the right program to start with

Adam RR wrote:

schtumpie wrote:
haha always keen on some direction thanks Obe One ( or would that be Yoda? )

Definitely Yoda - or possibly R2D2.



Duck Girl - which 3 marathons?

Yoda



I'd put money on Schtumpy to finish a marathon long before Yoda though.



Now I believe that Duckgirl will only be running 2 marathons next year as I do recall hearing talk of the G.O.R full in '07, which will put her tally for the year as 2 Marathons and 1 Ultra



I am hoping that 2 halfs and a full season of AV cross country/road will set me up for a marathon debut in October '07.



Already quivering in fear

Em I think you'll be more than ready for by october



Why don't run the GC? I love that race. I wont be entering it this year due to being over seas for most of the lead up but will be there with bells on taking photos of friends and the little green noble man

I'm having a look around for a marathon training program to start in the next few weeks - aiming to be ready for the Sri Chinmoy Williamstown race in May.



I've done some googling and found the "Susan Hobson - Sub 3.30 Runners" program at the Canberra Marathon website. You can see it at: http://www.canberramarathon.com.au/index.php?pageid=123



It seems pretty good to me - it fits my general goals, and I'm pretty much bang on the starting level of training at the moment.



What do people think of it? My only concern is the longest run is 34km, only done twice.

I followed a similar program for my first marathon where my longest runs were 34km's and was able to run a sub 3:30.

I would personally make one of those runs a 37-38km... I felt it paid off for me last year.

I find the program pretty demanding where you're doing Intervals on Tuesday, Longish run on Wendesday and Fartlek on Thursdays.

Looks like a good program and fairly similar to a Pat Carroll one I used from the Gold Coast marathon website with the exception that there was more interval training rather than tempo/fartlek which suited me. There are 5 x long runs of 30km or over including 3 x 34km (not 2) which should be more than enough. I don't think you need to go for more than about 2hrs 40mins if you plan on a 3-3:30 marathon.



As for your choice of marathon I wouldn't recommend the Willy marathon. I chose Willy for my 1st marathon in 2005 as it is fairly local to me and the 2nd half of the race is extremely boring, more like a long run than a race. You are mostly by yourself doing 3 x 7km loops and there are usually only about 40 entrants in the marathon. By the time you finish most of the 10k runners and half marathoners have packed up and gone. A little disappointing after such a long preparation. I did enjoy doing the half there last year I just think you can find a more interesting marathon maybe GOR?



Disclaimer - I've only run two marathons so take my advice with a grain of salt

Are you happy to only have one run at 3 hours?



I think the more seasoned people on here will tell 1 3hour run is not enough.. but then, apparently Pat Carrol might have run a marathon or two in his time as well.



Maybe you could modify it and run the long runs slightly longer?



Either way, good luck with it and keep us informed of how it goes

It seems odd me advising for MORE running....



But -- IMHO only 2 runs of 34km would not be enough, 2hr40m is not enough for us mere mortals who are likely to run over 3hrs on race day.



My experience has been the same in both marathons I ran last year. Despite achieving finishing times quicker than expected, I really slowed in the last 5km of the race. At MM2006, I went from 4m15s up to 35km, then slowed to 4.20, 4.28, 4.40, 4.50, 4.59, 5.12 then 4.55 to finish. Legs trashed.



I did 3 runs of 3hrs+ or 35km+, one run was 40km. But this was still not enough to teach the body how to run under severe fatigue.

Of course, this is also off a pretty low weekly km, so it may follow that with an extra 20-30km each week I may have finished stronger....or it may not....

But, if my weekly mileage didn't change, my next preparation will involve more 'hard running' when already fatigued, eg run for 2hrs, then go harder for the last hour. Plus I would aim for 4-5 runs at 35km+.



Each to their own, but that last section of the race is tough, so like all running it must be trained for....



As in other posts - this is just from my experience....follow at own risk

Many of the guys I ran with in the 80s would only go 32km as their longest runs and have no dramas. Generally though these guys and girls were running 110-160kms per week which was considered pretty normal back then. All those kms conditioned the legs pretty well to the late race demands.

If you aren't planning on running that sought of volume then I personally reckon you need to go pretty long on some of your long runs.



My longest runs, ave weekly kms and marathon times over the years to the best of my memory and poor historical recording.

1979. longest run 17kms. ave kms per week 25kms. time 4.09.

1980. 42kms. 130kms. and 2.55.

1981. 42kms. 130kms. and 2.44.

1984. 40kms. 160kms. and 2.43.

1991. 32kms. 80kms. and 2.53

1992. 40kms. 60kms. and 2.53

2000. 44kms. 50kms. and 2.57



As you can see I generally did a run at least somewhere near the marathon distance in my lead up. In 92 I wasn't in as good a form or running as many kms as the previous year but did some longer runs and was able to run the same marathon time.

Of course none of this proves anything - except maybe running marathons in extreme heat off 25kms per week isn't a good idea

My reasoning for saying that you only need to for 2hrs 40mins max (or 32-34km) or so on the Sunday run is based on you also doing a hardish 8-12kms on the Saturday too. This program suggests and 8km run + strides for most of the Saturday runs. In the Hal Higdon advanced programs they have you doing your Saturday runs at marathon pace of up to 16km followed by a long run of 32 kms on the Sunday. The Pat Carroll program I used had me doing "moderate paced runs" of up to 12kms on the Saturday. By themselves I don't think the 34km runs would be enough preparation for the marathon but with the extra fatigue of a Saturday run they were enough for me.



PS Just checked my training log and I ran 30k or over 7 times in the lead up to Melbourne Marathon last year including a longest run of 34km three times.

Thanks for all your comments on this. I know there are a lot of opinions around about long runs, and I don't know if there's a scientifically proven right way to go about it.



This program at least has some logic behind it. It gives you a mix of plenty of ks, some strength and speed stuff, and also asks you to do the last sections of long runs faster (as mentioned by Clarkey).



Theoretically, this should teach the body to cope with having to work hard when fatigued, which might make up for the lack of super long runs.



I don't know... I'll see how it goes.

Similar to slackers Sunday long runs backing up after a tough Saturday, last year in my build up to Melbourne I did the following:

Sat. 12km XC race Sun. the Sri Chinmoy 30km at Princes Park.

Sat. 6.2km relay race Sun. 29/30km long run

Sat. 8km XC race Sun. 34km Bellarine Trail

Sat. Tan relay race (3.8kms) Sun. Warby trail 37kms+



There were other long runs in there as well, and I don't know whether it was the right thing to do or not, because at 30kms on marathon day it got pretty tough still, and by 35kms I was dead on my feet and it was all I could do to finish.

Will have to work harder this year